Lived Experience Forum

[chibam]

I stumbled upon this article this afternoon about one woman's experiance as an ECT patient, and I found it very thought-provoking.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/lifestyle/shopping/im-a-mum-of-2-toddlers-going-through-ect-heres-what-its...

I have no personal experiance with ECT treatment myself. But I know that numerous advocacy organizations hold a very bleak view of it, to the point where I've seen many of them pushing to have the practice made illegal. And I understand their reasons for this stance: it is based off the direct experiance of patients who've reported terrible consequences when the treatment's gone wrong, or been misused on someone who didn't really need it.

But this article makes it pretty apparent that there is another, very differant side to the story.

I found this article thought-provoking, not so much in terms of my views on ECT, but more on my views of life and society as a whole.

We have no consensus amongst us as a human species. What is very, very bad for some is very, very good for others. How are we to build common standards and functional relationships when we are all so starkly different in our core values and aspirations?

And then, think of our leaders; particularly the ones tasked with building and maintaining our mental health system? How are they supposed to build such a system when the citizens it is intended to cater to share no commonality in their aspirations or standards?

[Appleblossom]

I thought it was a bit of a setup article to reassure people about ECT. She sounded well educated and well resourced financially and socially, so not an average joe blow or jane doe. I am aware it is different from the 60s and 70s but she could not provide the long term perspective.  So yes the disclaimer at the end was wise and necessary.  Each person is individual.

@chibam 

Your reflection was worth reading "We have no consensus amongst us as a human species. What is very, very bad for some is very, very good for others. How are we to build common standards and functional relationships when we are all so starkly different in our core values and aspirations?"

No easy answers from me, The range of people needing MH care ... is huge.

[Historylover]

 @chibam  Coercive much? Just keep peddling their poison, don't they?

[NatureLover]

Interesting article, @chibam , thanks for posting.

[chibam]

@Appleblossom @Historylover , I have no doubt that that woman was only given a platform because her commentary was very favorable to ECT. I'm sure that if she were one of the many who had been harmed by ECT, she would've found it much more difficult getting the media to pass her grievances and warnings on to the broader public.

And I take her broader statements about ECT - namely it's purported high success rate - with a grain of salt. Unlike the bulk of her article, that cannot possibly be firsthand experiance, so where is she getting that information?

There are certainly puppetmasters behind the scenes controlling the balance of the narrative, issuing the official statistics, and determining who we hear from.

That being said, if we take her testimony about her own personal experiance at face value, it's clear that these sorts of issues are far trickier than simply labelling ECT as either "good" or "bad". I would never want it for myself; but the author of that article evidantly finds it invaluable.

[Historylover]

The inflictors of this procedure don't care if it works or harms, @chibam, and you're right: platforms are provided for promoters, but not for those vehemently opposed. And who knows if she's for real? It all just keeps the wheels and the production (destruction?) lines in motion. 

I didn't read beyond the beginning of the article. I find these vacuous, responsibility-free promotions too distressing to read through, but it just seemed hollow promotion to me. I wonder if she got paid. Did it say? 

Edit: Her fortnightly cost was $2000? Does this "mental health' industry just keep going and growing?

[chibam]

---

@Historylover wrote:

I wonder if she got paid. Did it say? 

I couldn't see any information one way or the other on whether or not she was paid, and/or how she came to write the article in the first place. Could she have been recruited to pen a testimonial by someone in the mental health industry, who had sifted through their records of patients who reported a positive impression of their ECT treatment? Or perhaps it was her own therapist who encouraged her to try to write and publish an article about her positive treatment?

On the other hand, perhaps she really did just sit down and write an article entirely of her own volition.

It's wise to be sceptical, but I am never able to tell when my own cynicism starts running off the rails. Am I seeing grander consipiracies then what truly exist? Is it really so far-fetched that a person might genuinely walk away from ECT treatment with a positive impression? I am clouded by personal biases and resentments, so I really don't know anymore.

Sometimes, I really envy the people who can just go with the flow; who can just believe what their supposed to believe and trust in the society around them. It must be a much simpler way to live.

[Eve7]

I can relate to this person’s experience with ECT. Sometimes I wonder though, if it’s the ECT that brings relief or the anaesthetic. I really love the feeling of floating away into twilight and getting away from myself and the darkness that overwhelms me at times.

The cost for ECT is a lot more expensive if it’s done as an outpatient in a private hospital. For some reason the cost is covered better as an inpatient.

I don’t know if I’d have it again as I worry about my brain being deep fried. It’s hard to make an informed decision when we are so low and wanting to succumb to voices within.

@chibam 

[Historylover]

Re: "Sometimes, I really envy the people who can just go with the flow; who can just believe what their supposed to believe and trust in the society around them. It must be a much simpler way to live."

They wouldn't be the kind of people I'd like to know @chibam. I think such a world would be very perplexing if we all believed everything we are told without question, discussion or investigation. We would be without wisdom, and survival would be difficult!

I must admit that in my youth, I did believe everything I was told. And in my later years as well, and look where that got me. So, I'm all for scepticism and cynicism. I consider it to be healthy...and necessary.

@chibam, how does having electric charges jolting our delicate and complex brains deal with the reason we became depressed? Don't these 'therapists' have the ability to deal with so-called 'mental illness' without medicating, electrocuting, experimenting and merely trying to chat it away–for fruitless years on end? Do they really think we are the ones with problems and that they are the only ones 'normal'? Not from my vantage point! 

You're not 'running off the rails' @chibam. 

[Appleblossom]

@Eve7 

Glad that you have received relief from the treatment. I can understand there are a range of responses to both the treatment and the discussion. 

@chibam @Historylover 

For me, it was the tone of the "persuasive argument" that was annoying.