Lived Experience Forum

[maddison]

Hi Everyone,

The issue I am going through is possibly something many members have been through, or maybe can relate to. 

I would love to get your feedback. 

Long story short: A particular person in my/our lives is someone who offers enrichment, support, irreplaceable value. (family) In short-having this person included, represents a better life for me/us.

Sounds easy so far!?

This person has the capacity to demonstrate narcissistic traits, is negative, insecure, out of touch, & has  the most extreme way of monopolizing a conversation I have ever encountered.

Whereas, I have discontinued contact with other family members, as I see hope for change is non existent.

In this particular circumstance, I have allowed more space, because, cutting them from life would affect others.

Therefore, I am in a situation where I must confront an issue, I would usually, easily step away from.

I cannot see how this relationship can continue without the basis of honesty.

Everything in my being would like to confront this person regarding my perception of their misbehavior. I see the potential action of addressing it, as healthy.

On the other hand, confronting or being honest with the person may escalate the situation, consequently making ongoing contact complicated and more difficult.

I am secure in my choice, that at least for now - contact with this person is important. I am not secure that it is predominately healthy.

How to navigate a dishonest relationship?

Should I drip feed my truths over years to come?

Should I accept terms as they are, on face value & simply show up. Never really feeling safe to give any part of myself?

For the sake of ultimate harmony?

I know the healthy, easy answer.

This particular situation is more complicated.

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

Were you ever truly honest?

What were the repercussions?

Did you feel a sense of betrayal to yourself & loved ones for not being true to yourself?

Is shutting up to serve a higher cause sometimes worth it?

I'm so confused! 

Please help me with any suggestions, feedback ♥️

maddison xx 

[Little_Leopard]

Hey there. I think most of us have one of these people in our lives.

Its a bit hard though to offer advice without specific examples of what is occurring. 

The only general advice I can give without knowing much is that you don’t have to rush into a decision. You can take your time and maybe seek out some help from someone who specialises in family relationships.

I’d definitely seek professional advice though before making a massive decision just so there are no regrets later.

In my opinion, If this person is important to you and the family dynamics it’s probably worth trying to resolve the issue if it’s reasonable and safe to do so. Not without help and support first though. Maybe a bit of assertiveness training with a therapist will do the trick?

[maddison]

Thanks @Little_Leopard for replying. I appreciate your understanding. The thing stood out to most & instantly gave me calm was, 'taking my time.'

Therapy might be something to consider in future. I honestly don't see them agreeing & would perhaps interpret it as an attack against their pride. It's good to have your input though, as it's something I hadn't even considered. Thanks.

I feel like I am the most assertive I've ever had to be with this person. It takes lots of my energy.

Their personality is loud & pretty obnoxious at times. I'm naturally more reserved & kind hearted, so tend feel 'trampled on' in their presence.

I think developing stronger assertiveness skills could be very helpful for me.

It's very difficult for me to be around behaviour I know is wrong & continue to accept it.

Thankyou so much xx

[Little_Leopard]

Hey there. You are very welcome. 
Yes it is very helpful to remind yourself that you are not on a time limit and that you can take your time.

Being in their presence does not mean that you endorse or approve of their behaviour. Like you said, it’s something you only tolerate so that you can enjoy other aspects of the family dynamics. This does not mean that you approve of or accept their behaviour at all.

This person sounds exhausting. No need to use more energy on them than is reasonable. Considering the fact that you have already put a considerable amount of effort into the situation may I suggest that the next best thing to do would be to step back and distance yourself. 

I’m glad that you liked the assertiveness training idea. I myself want to try to do some assertiveness training to help myself with some personal boundaries and family issues that I struggle with. 

Maybe in the future SANE could offer an assertiveness training course for us who are struggling?

[Little_Leopard]

Hey there @maddison . You are very welcome. 
Yes it is very helpful to remind yourself that you are not on a time limit and that you can take your time.

Being in their presence does not mean that you endorse or approve of their behaviour. Like you said, it’s something you only tolerate so that you can enjoy other aspects of the family dynamics. This does not mean that you approve of or accept their behaviour at all.

This person sounds exhausting. No need to use more energy on them than is reasonable. Considering the fact that you have already put a considerable amount of effort into the situation may I suggest that the next best thing to do would be to step back and distance yourself. 

I’m glad that you liked the assertiveness training idea. I myself want to try to do some assertiveness training to help myself with some personal boundaries and family issues that I struggle with. 

Maybe in the future SANE could offer an assertiveness training course for us who are struggling?

[Little_Leopard]

Hey there @maddison . You are very welcome. 
Yes it is very helpful to remind yourself that you are not on a time limit and that you can take your time.

Being in their presence does not mean that you endorse or approve of their behaviour. Like you said, it’s something you only tolerate so that you can enjoy other aspects of the family dynamics. This does not mean that you approve of or accept their behaviour at all.

This person sounds exhausting. No need to use more energy on them than is reasonable. Considering the fact that you have already put a considerable amount of effort into the situation may I suggest that the next best thing to do would be to step back and distance yourself. 

I’m glad that you liked the assertiveness training idea. I myself want to try to do some assertiveness training to help myself with some personal boundaries and family issues that I struggle with. 

Maybe in the future SANE could offer an assertiveness training course for us who are struggling?

ps. Sorry I had to post the same message twice because in the first message I forgot to add the @ symbol 

[maddison]

Hey @Little_Leopard Your input is actually so spot on, it's incredible.

It's showing up as being posted 3 times for me. I'm taking it as a sign from the universe that this what it wants me to know!!!

Yes. It's exhausting. I've offered so much - too much. Continuing to give energy, would mean repeating a cycle & expecting different results.

I hadn't considered that my presence doesn't equal my approval. As you said, I can focus on my own values, be present & still be true to myself.

I'm actually going to copy & paste that paragraph & keep it in my notes. You have worded it so well.

It's possible I have been doing this the whole time, yet didn't realise exactly what I was doing. I think now that my parameters are more cleary defined, I might be able to create successful outcomes.

I might have even been ashamed for my situation. Not a good place to build from!

Maybe I was even waiting for permission to step back.

Thankyou.♥️

I also was thinking along the lines of internet based assertiveness skills training. I didn't consider SANE. I really love that idea if it was something they would be able to offer. I have never done anything like that before. It could be good to learn new skills in that area. If done well, I think many people could really benefit from it.

I really wasn't expecting such a helpful reply. Thankyou so so much @Little_Leopard xx

[Little_Leopard]

I am so happy that my comments are being helpful to you. 
I think we may be in similar situations with our family dynamics which is why we feel that we “get it”. The specifics may be different but the boundary crossing outspokenness, and offensive behaviour problems that we are experiencing are relatable.

I have a member in my family who is outspoken and overbearing. They are not always bad but they are enough of the time that I would be happy if I never saw them again.

This person frequently expresses there highly offensive and inappropriate comments on a range of topics. These comments are personally offensive to myself as well as just being genuinely unacceptable to the general population.

We have told this person multiple times that they need to cut it out. They keep doing it though because they are incredibly insecure and need to say awful things about others to lift themselves up and feel better about themselves.

No one actually agrees with this person and usually everyone goes silent for a shot moment or ignores the comments completely. I’m not sure if it’s the same with you but to me this shows that no one is actually agreeing with this person but they know that this person is so “out of there mind” that there is no point in arguing.

The thing with people like me and you is that we interpret silence as a pass for the bad behaviour. We get angry at ourselves for letting it “slide”. And that’s fair enough but it gets to the point we’re you need to give yourself credit for all of the energy and time you have put in to try and stop it. Unfortunately with these kind of people they will not stop unless everyone puts there foot down hard and pulls out them up every time. This is exhausting for everyone and could create an emotional blow up. This doesn’t work many times though and the person will continue to push that boundary constantly because for them it’s an ego and a pride thing. Usually these people are very insecure and they rely on this rude and outspoken behaviour so that they can continue to feel better about themselves.

so yes taking a step back does not mean you agree to their behaviour. It’s accepting that this person has problems that are beyond your control. It’s better to walk away and enjoy time with other family members who you enjoy spending time with.

However this still does not mean that it is ok to let this person walk on you or hurt you in any way if that is what they are doing. You still need to set those boundaries no matter what. This is something that I personally struggle with and I am similar to you in the way that I feel to emotionally exhausted from this person to keep the battle of wills going.

I just avoid this person now as much as possible. I have lost respect for them and therefore don’t go out of my way to converse with them. I tolerate there presence and am polite and say hello and talk in a friendly and respectful manner when appropriate. But I dont go out of my way to hangout or anything. That way I keep the peace and well as my own peace of mind and don’t have to worry about any drama, fights or tension. I have been through enough and don’t wish to subject myself to any more stress.

Yep would be great if SANE would run a program for assertiveness for us guys who need the support! 

[Little_Leopard]

Apologies @maddison, I have had to post twice again as I forgot to @ your name again lol. 

 I am so happy that my comments are being helpful to you. 
I think we may be in similar situations with our family dynamics which is why we feel that we “get it”. The specifics may be different but the boundary crossing outspokenness, and offensive behaviour problems that we are experiencing are relatable.

I have a member in my family who is outspoken and overbearing. They are not always bad but they are enough of the time that I would be happy if I never saw them again.

This person frequently expresses there highly offensive and inappropriate comments on a range of topics. These comments are personally offensive to myself as well as just being genuinely unacceptable to the general population.

We have told this person multiple times that they need to cut it out. They keep doing it though because they are incredibly insecure and need to say awful things about others to lift themselves up and feel better about themselves.

No one actually agrees with this person and usually everyone goes silent for a shot moment or ignores the comments completely. I’m not sure if it’s the same with you but to me this shows that no one is actually agreeing with this person but they know that this person is so “out of there mind” that there is no point in arguing.

The thing with people like me and you is that we interpret silence as a pass for the bad behaviour. We get angry at ourselves for letting it “slide”. And that’s fair enough but it gets to the point we’re you need to give yourself credit for all of the energy and time you have put in to try and stop it. Unfortunately with these kind of people they will not stop unless everyone puts there foot down hard and pulls out them up every time. This is exhausting for everyone and could create an emotional blow up. This doesn’t work many times though and the person will continue to push that boundary constantly because for them it’s an ego and a pride thing. Usually these people are very insecure and they rely on this rude and outspoken behaviour so that they can continue to feel better about themselves.

so yes taking a step back does not mean you agree to their behaviour. It’s accepting that this person has problems that are beyond your control. It’s better to walk away and enjoy time with other family members who you enjoy spending time with.

However this still does not mean that it is ok to let this person walk on you or hurt you in any way if that is what they are doing. You still need to set those boundaries no matter what. This is something that I personally struggle with and I am similar to you in the way that I feel to emotionally exhausted from this person to keep the battle of wills going.

I just avoid this person now as much as possible. I have lost respect for them and therefore don’t go out of my way to converse with them. I tolerate there presence and am polite and say hello and talk in a friendly and respectful manner when appropriate. But I dont go out of my way to hangout or anything. That way I keep the peace and well as my own peace of mind and don’t have to worry about any drama, fights or tension. I have been through enough and don’t wish to subject myself to any more stress.

Yep would be great if SANE would run a program for assertiveness for us guys who need the support! 

[maddison]

Hi @Little_Leopard @Little_Leopard thanks so much for reply. It was funny towards the end, when you had to double post again (yes, it was only 2 posts yesterday - not 3! upon re- checking) I'm still taking it as a sign that we are in sync with our problems & the advice you have to offer, & story you share is important & hugely relevant to me right now

I had been struggling with anxiety over the weekend, after a family catch-up on Friday. This morning, I was so surprised& relieved that anxiety had completely gone.

I'm glad I decided to post. It was on a whim! Getting it out of my head & on to the 'screen' probably helped. Reading your perspective was such a great relief tho! Previously I had come to the conclusion that it was simply an impossible situation - i.e no possible solution.

You really highlighted the significance of my personal boundaries & how their importance does not waiver regardless of the physical actions I am able to implement at any given moment.

Inaction is not indicative of complacency & definately not acceptance. Inaction is the wrong word - There are complex situations where atypical action is more appropriate. It is a reflection of the situation & not a broadening of personal boundaries & beliefs.

I admit, I am finding this concept difficult to adjust to. 

"The thing with people like me and you is that we interpret silence as a pass for the bad behaviour. We get angry at ourselves for letting it “slide”."

This is exactly what is happening! And yet it is so unfair to treat ourselves in this way. If there were another way - we would be courageous & take it, even when many others wouldn't!

The person, that you described in your family, is word for word the same as my experience. I have lost respect for them now, too. Our experiences are really identical reading your descriptions.

I feel like, the simple fact of knowing that there is someone else (probably many!) going through the same thing as me, has already adjusted my viewpoint & given my mind new support when dealing with this person.

Our current family structure has VERY! few people. This makes things extra intense & more difficult to escape. I find this persons energy big & domineering. I think similarly to your statement of 'getting exhausted by a battling of wills' I tend to always "lose track of myself" quite easily when in their presence. It upsets me a lot. This is again, why your input is especially important. I feel like it gives me that little bit more ammunition to stand my ground. I feel like I can be more powerful in my silence now too.

I know, underneath the dominating facade, that these kinds of people are actually acutely vulnerable & very weak. It is actually a funny match, because people like you & me are probably infinitely compassionate & strong! Opposites drawn to each other! They likely see our kindness as a weakness to exploit. While we see their bizarre behaviour as hurt, that we are willing help heal!

I can't keep contributing to this endless equation!!!

I wonder if learning some basic assertiveness skills could be enough, to finally make these unhealthy relationships more palatable?? Or maybe, less hard?!

@tyme do you think it would be possible to put in a suggestion for SANE to provide access to some type of assertiveness skills training?

Thanks again @Little_Leopard it's really cool & amazing to me, how talking to someone can make things look so different! Thankyou @Little_Leopard @tyme 

P.S I don't mind at all if you post twice! If you want to, you can click on "post options " at top of your post - then click on edit post!

It happened to me now - my session timed out, somehow it took me over an hour to write. I had a long day! Anyway- luckily I had copied the post, except the names didn't highlight. Ok, bye!!