Friends, Family & Carers Forum

[Gremmie]

Hi Everyone,
I've never used this or any forum before, but I had a read through some other conversations, and thought I might find a bit if help here.  I'm in deep grief, anxiety and some confusion over my beautiful 16 year old daughter, who has had problems with mental illness for about 3 years now. 

It started with anxiety and some "melt downs' over things like clothes and never feeling right and 'good enough' in looks or clothing,  to regular self-harm when she felt bad.  She's had counselling with a psychologist, but didn't connect well with her.  Things progressed, and we were referred to a psychiatrist in the tradition of "Biological Psychiatry" with whom she developed a good relationship, and who my daughter feels really 'gets' her.  This psychiatrist changed her antidepressants, but I've never seen much improvement from any of the medications she's been on.  In January this year, my daugher attempted suicide.  After this, she was prescribed an antipsychotic, an antidepressant, mood stabiliser, and now recently more benzodiazepine.

My daughter cam be lovely, affectionate, and motivated sometimes, at other times, she can be impatient, somewhat verbally abusive, disrespectful and willful - common in adolescents, but sometime magnified in my daughter. She has left highschool because she has felt unable to be in that environment and felt the classes had nothing to offer with her.    I've tried to support her in her decisions, allowing her to leave school and find a TAFE course she was interested in, trying to help her acheive independance with boundaries, but I often don't know where to stand - when is the disrespect due to the illness, and when is it just bad behaviour?  When do I respond with firmness and consequences such as grounding, and when do I just talk to her about why something occurred? I try to do both, but she will cry and say I can't do that to her - that she hates being at home and feels like dying, she's only happy when she's out with her friends. We have run the gamut of teenage nightmares from an episode of shoplifting, to sex with various boys and girls,  pot smoking, finding bottles of rum in her room, LSD (once with a friend who had a psychotic reaction to it and we all ended up in Emergency at 3am!), and wagging class (both high school and a couple of times with TAFE).
I've sometimes thought she might have BPD, and perhaps should go into a Dialectical group, but her psychiatrist disagrees.  Sometimes I thought maybe Bipolar, as she has an aunt and cousins with it, and perhaps a tendency towards that?  Not that I want to label her, I just want to get the right treatment to help her.  I'm so worried about all these drugs she's on (the legal ones, I mean) and whether they are helping or not.  I'm worried that while she likes her psychiatrist, this doctor might not be giving her the right treatment.  My daughter hears a Voice that she calls the 'Red Haired Girl' who threatens her and tells her to do bad things to herself.  She also feels that her soul is an experiment of the universe and that it is a patchwork of human, animal, and plant spirits - this idea doesn't bother her, but she says she thinks she is a failed experiment because she can't handle her life.  Her regular psych deals with these things very calmly, but at the moment she is away, and the other psych wants to severely increase her medications because he feels she is extremely unwell and delusional.  Perhaps a fair call, but is more drugs the answer??
This is a girl who is now studying tourism and wants to travel the world and work for AJ Hacketts or other adventure company - who just a few years ago was one of the most talented members of her school drama group.  Now I don't know what to do, if she's getting the help she needs, or where to turn.  The latest issue is that she is now talking about wanting to move out from home to live and learn from her own mistakes!  Does anyone out there have any experience with this sort of thing?  I desperately want this to be a very bad patch that we will eventually emerge from, but over the last few years it all just gets worse.  I jump every time the phone rings, and weekends are more stressful than the work week because often thats when things come to a head.  Any support, information or encouragment would be welcome Smiley Happy

[NikNik]

Hi @Gremmie

Welcome to the Forums and thanks for sharing your story.

It sounds like your daughter hasn't been formally diagnosed, would that be correct?

You mentioned you think she might have bipolar or BPD - but I suspect that the psychiatrist isn't forthcoming with making a formal diagnosis because of her age. This is mostly because teenagers have so much going on biologically and developmentally, that sometimes they hold off on making a formal diagnosis until they have got through that period.

Your experiences sound similar to @parent1 who posted here about her experiences with her daughter. Parent1, do you have any advice for Gremmie?

I was concerned to read about the voices she hears. It's great that she connects with her psych well. Have you been able to have some one on one time with her to discuss your concerns re: the voices, the family history of bipolar and medication?

[Altogether]

Talking about doctors being a little unwilling to make formal diagnosis with teenagers, that reminded me of what our psychiatrist said about 'personality vulnerabilities'. I might post about that to see what people know. But basically he was saying that they need to be dealt with, and conquered at this age, so they don't become actual disorders.

But of course, that doesn't help when you just want a solution for your child. I wish there was a solution we could just grasp onto @Gremmie.

Is there any way of holding off making medication changes till your regular psych comes back?

[Gremmie]

Thanks for your reply, NikNik.  No, she hasn't really been formally diagnosed, aside from anxiety/depression.  However, this current psych (who is the husband of her regular psych), says she is severely depersonalised, delusional, and he thinks she is possibly hallucinating.  My daughter says that yes, she often feels she is looking at the world from 2 different perspectives, and has interesting theories about the origins of her soul, but those things don't keep her from having a normal life.  It's her moods and 'bad thoughts' that really affect her life.

This psych she is seeing temporarily is the husband of her regular psych, and was quite influential in his home country.  It feels very easy to agree with him when you are sitting in his office as he is quite adament, only later in retrospect you think 'hang on ... What??"  

He keeps reinforcing with me that my daughter is gravely ill, and we need to closely observe her, give her exactly the medication he orders, and keep her home to avoid having her "expose" her condition in public.  Does this seem odd??  My daugher has an active social life, with lots of friends - some better influences than others, I think, but still good friends.  It feels like this psych wants to drug her because he finds her ideas objectionable.

Yesterday, I went to the GP here who is the main psychotherapist at Headspace, and explained our situation.  She said she sees kids like my daughter all the time at Headspace, and rarely do they need much medication aside from maybe antidepressants.  She believes what my daugher is experiencing is serious, but relatively common, and some of her worstening symptoms could be actually caused by all the medication.  In any case, my daughter has agreed to go see this GP and consider alternatives to her current treatment.  It would be sad to lose the relationship she has with her usual psych, but I really think we need a decent 2nd opinion about this.  My girl seems to be often sleeping, groggy, and just when she comes out of it a little, she's due for the next dose.

In answer to your question about discussing issues with the usual psych - unfortunately not much.  When she's around, she's very busy, and I might get a call 2 - 3 weeks after I try to get in touch with her.  Conversely, the other current psych is always asking to see me urgently, and then scaring me into submission by telling me how incredibly sick and vulnerable my daugher is!  At a fee of $380 a visit, mind you 🙂

[Gremmie]

Hi, yes, this psych said something similar about thought habits, and how they need to be dealt with early before they become ingrained.  I can agree with that, but I guess it's sorting out what thoughts are actually harmful and what ones are just unusual.  

A lot of people have unusual thoughts about reality, religion, the origin of souls, etc, but it only become problematic when those ideas become obsessive or so large that they prevent the person from seeing reality.  Of course, I'm not an expert, but the field of psychiatry does have a history of sometimes treating people who are just unusual, not necessarily sick.  

After speaking with a GP psychotherapist, I have decided to hold off making any major changes in her medication.  The psych seems to be treating this situation as if we have an urgent crisis that needs to be dealt with, but in reality nothing has changed much over the past 6 months, so a couple more weeks shouldn't make much of a difference.

Thanks for your input! 🙂

[Appleblossom]

Hi, I tend to like Headspace approach with my son. A lot of leeway is given due to adolescence and sorting out priorities and getting a life established. Most of the people I have spoken with have been great, I am less impressed with my son's new psychiatrist.

The first psychiatrist I saw was Indian and I am grateful for his down to earth approach.

Later, when I read "The Inner World: a psychoanalytical study of childhood and society in India", decades ago in my undergrad degree, I loved it. It is fascinating how different cultures operate. There are so many. I think you may know your daughter better than some experts. Look for help but also trust your instincts.

[PeppiPatty]

dear @Gremmie

Yeah,I agree with @Appleblossom,  trust your own instincts. My oldest son at 24 yrs old had his first Psychosis at 20 and though he lives in another state, we get along quite well........ (he said he missed me today.....i havent spoken to him for a few months....)

So, dont know what state you live in but I experienced Headspace a couple of weeks ago with friends children and very impressed with their attitude. 

I live in Western Australia. The biggest issue I think to be very very aware of is that....You are the loved one and fulltime carer. That You know how your daughter thinks and breathes. And how she is. Sometimes, these Doctors forget the loved ones truly are wanting the best for their children, not out of your self or nievity but because you actually do know your daghter.

 the reason why i wrote nievity and self is that the Doctors can forget that your a Good Mum, you truly have your daughters best interests at heart.....

You daughter is very lucky to have you. 

Take care this weekend, from ja47yr. 

[Janna]

Hi 😊

I'm tagging in rather late on this thread but can say that I can fully appreciate the anguish that you are going through given that I also have a 16 year old with mental health issues.  From what you've described I tend to think that an inpatient stay in a mental health unit may help to stablise your daughter and to bring some order into her world.  More specifically a Young Persons Mental Health Unit which deal specifically with young people.  Clearly this is only going to work well if she voluntarily goes and wants help.  The observations that can be made when in 24/7 care may shed some light on the exact nature and extent of her mental illness.  It would also be a good opportunity to have another psychiatrist involved.  I'm not sure if this is feasible and/or whether your daughter would be amenable to it, but she sounds like she is at risk and in need of further intervention.  That's just my unprofessional opinion remember.  Her idea of moving out sounds as scary as hell and I certainly would not want my child venturing out into an unsupervised world with all these mental health issues.  I can see non-compliance with medications, taking illicit substances, drinking alcohol and generally living dangerously as being very likely and would be very concerned for her well-being.  

I don't know if I read your post correctly, but from what you've described your daughter sounds like she's almost ready for an involuntary admission in order to stabilize her.  Meanwhile you need to keep your strength up and seek as much support from as many professionals as possible.

Please let us know how your getting on.

Janna

[PeppiPatty]

Hi @Janna

Like like your message, it's so supportive. I also have a ...... Son actually who is 24 years old who experiences times of mental ill health.
Thank you
Ja47yr