Have your say: updating a guideline

[Lauz]

Thank you to everyone for getting in here and sharing your thoughts, feelings and insights. Like @s-jay we really appreciate this and we really value the opportunity to work collaboratively with you all around changes 👍🏼

[Owlunar]

Thanks for the feedback @s-jay 

I had a bad headache by the time I got home and the first thing I did was get on-line to share my day - and I could not understand those guidelines - 

I was confused I admit and now have no desire to try again - I think I get it - I have an Honours Degree in Engish Literature gained in my middle years and normally I can understand what I read if it's legible - on Friday night - not much help there - so really - when it comes to this kind of post it might read better by being very simple

Can we write thing that might trigger anyone into the little box normally there that hides such comments - otherwise - write a trigger warning

Regarding the guideline

Perhaps it could be easier to write with less explanation - the idea of less being more

"Remember when writing about a painful experience with a therapist that this might cause some people to delay or cease seeking professional help. Write your concerns without being graphic and don't use adjectives"

I don't know because I don't think I have ever written guidelines but the more written the more confusion -

And I can say truthfully that my experiences with my last therapist and last week with the psychologist at the pain clinic I feel thoroughly cured of seeking this kind of help - and this is not a good thing - people are sure to find a negative experience themselves at some stage without reading it here and if they do - then they need not feel so alone

Just my thoughts - I think the MH systems needs some regulation - I find this Site a really great place for help and understanding - more than that - positive support and for back-up - there is always Life Line and I did write a short thread with the best way to get the best out of Life Line

But many thanks for the service here - I have a good idea that this is not an easy area for moderation but it is a peer support forum and we are here to serve each other in the best way we can - sometimes difficult - I know

Dec

[Appleblossom]

@s-jay @Lauz 

I believe it is crucial that the forum mods practise active listening to the posters who come here, and maintain commitment if there are changes.  There are probably many more people who could be helped, and to remain relevant in the field, I believe SANE should provide for the scope of people coping with mental health issues, not just the relatively fortunate.

A few people have posted about the difficulties with the computer algorithm or being moderated.  I am sure many many more fall between the cracks, that we do not kn ow about..

Generally I have been functioning better than average and adapted to guidelines fairly well, but I have always been aware of how bad it is for a lot of people, that the forums should be be geared towards them. ..those worse off ...

Hear Hear @Fredd50 @TheVorticon @Owlunar Aye Aye

There are lots of gaps in the system and to pretend they do not exist ... begs the question of who and what is delusional.....IMO .... just saying....

[Fredd50]

 

[s-jay]

Hello @Fredd50 , @Appleblossom , @Owlunar , @TheVorticon , @Gazza75 , @Shaz51 , @Former-Member , @eudemonism , @eth , @Adge , @utopia , @Owlunar 

Thank you all for participating in the consultation. I have summarised your feedback below.

What will happen now, is that we will take on all your feedback (summarised below) to make a new guideline. We will come back to you with it before it goes live so you can check we have interpreted your feedback correctly.

Also, some of the feedback below is not just relevant for the guideline update but is also important for moderator training and support so we will also take your feedback to other work we do about moderator training and support.

Thank you all again. We will come back to show you how we are implementing your feedback.

Summary of feedback:

• Why was it interpreted that the guideline highlighted meant that there could be no talk of negative experiences. When actually, sharing of those experiences could in fact help people along their help seeking journey.
• Reporting on negative experiences in the mental health sector does not necessarily breach the guideline of encouraging help seeking behaviour
• Report of genuine and real abuse does not necessarily discourage help seeking - rather it can make sure that people are aware of the risks and benefits and can help bring about change
• Moderation as it was could contribute to a culture of fear in reporting harm or re-traumatisation in help seeking. It can lead to people censoring themselves and not feeling like they can express distress or strong emotion.
• Recognise that people might not be able to carefully vet things when really distressed - or whether they should?
• The definition of 'mental health' is changing away from a disease or disorder focus and towards the sense of wellbeing and dignity that all humans deserve to enjoy.
• Why are they are called guidelines rather than rules?
• Can we be clearer about the use of trigger warnings
• There could be clarifying text that helps to explain more than what is possible to write in a guideline (EG “Write your concerns without being graphic and don't use adjectives")
• It is crucial that the Moderators practice active listening and think about the nuance of specific situations
• SANE to consider how the guidelines are communicated to people in high distress or having difficulty comprehending etc

[Fredd50]

I still think that the guidline needs to go

it has to go it can not stay

why?

a) It has been used by moderators to silence people speaking out about abuse, moderators can not be trusted not to think that speaking about abuse is 'discouraging help seeking'

b) While moderators were in breach of the guideline, it does beg the question as to the disengenous nature of the guideline itself: WHY is the guideline there? IS it there because there is an assumption that people have no agency? IS it there because SANE is effectively a stool pigeon, making money for it's donors' disease mongering interests?

One of the clear patterns with the posts that got deleted had nothing to do with discouraging help seeking in the sense of seeking help - they were deleted because they might reflect badly on certain organisations and professions.

I know that SANE, if I am not mistaken receives money from private donors, some of which may be pharmaceutical companies? Some of which may be other vested interests that expect something in return?

The question arises:

WHY does SANE think it is appropriate for posts to be geared towards help seeking rather than purely having guidelines that are about respect?

Why is this guideline there?

There are two sides to this

1) None of the deleted posts breached the guideline - so if they didn't breach the guideline why were they really deleted? Why did the moderators believe they breached the guidelines? Could it be because they wanted to hide abuse? Because they wanted to hide corruption? Because they wanted to keep things controlled - not for the genuine sake of the participants, but for the sake of protecting their own sensibiities as persons who may have participated in abuse?

2) There is no need for posts to be 'geared towards help seeking' - why in gods name would there be?

Most people don't come to a forum to make money for professionals - they come to a forum because they are down and out and need to feel better - the forum should be there to support it's participants NOT it's suppliers, it's donors or any other professionals

It's degrading to insist that people sit around all day talking about seeking help. Do you want people to be helpless? Is it a terrible thing to seek independence instead of help? Why must we be dependent, submissive creatures without agency?

Empowerment is a great deal more helpful than disempowerment

There is no excuse for what the moderators did. They did not delete posts because those posts were not encouraging help seeking - they deleted posts becuase the MH system has a long history of hiding and denying abuse so it was a reflex that came naturally

I'm sorry but this whole thing is incredibly disingenous

I have twice said that the complaint I sent is supposed to go to the CEO why do they keep asking me if I am happy with this forum instead? I am not, why is there a delay in escalating my complaint to the CEO?

I am tired of being taken advantage of. Please ensure that Dinah knows that my complaint is supposed to be escalated to the CEO it is not just about deleting the forum posts - it is also about the mis-information on the website that is advertising the medical model as if it is 'fact' so that people do not know they have a choice - this is highly unethical. It leads to a lot of abuses because the community thinks that 'mental illness' is a fact rather than one way of looking at suffering and distress.

It causes no end of problems - not least of which include restricting access to services, people ar edeprived of access to services that might help them because they do not even realise that other paradigms exist that do NOT insist on them being trapped forever in a life of suffering and dependency.

Enough is enough - this whole thing has been a distraction.

[eth]

Thanks for your post @s-jay   

It needs to be said that the forums help many many people.  Keep up the good work.  I've been around for a few years now (I think it's nearly 5) and overall find the moderation excellent.

[Shaz51]

Thanks for your post @s-jay   

It needs to be said that the forums help many many people.  Keep up the good work.  I've been around for a few years now (I think it's nearly 5) and overall find the moderation excellent.

I totally agree @eth ,

I have been here for 4 years now , and to think where we were 5 years ago until now  and to see how big the sane community has become @s-jay , @nashy , @Lauz 

[Shaz51]

Thanks for your post @s-jay   

It needs to be said that the forums help many many people.  Keep up the good work.  I've been around for a few years now (I think it's nearly 5) and overall find the moderation excellent.

I totally agree @eth ,

I have been here for 4 years now , and to think where we were 5 years ago until now  and to see how big the sane community has become @s-jay , @nashy , @Lauz 

[s-jay]

Hi all, thank you for those final peices of feedback.

@Fredd50 - have ensured that your complaint is being escalated to the CEO.

We'll close this thread now and start a new one when we loop back around with our course of action next week.